Debate

You both like debate.

Stranger: hi

You: hey

Stranger: have a topic in mind?

You: I could

You: Do you?

Stranger: Not in particular

You: Do you think it’s permissible to kill humans for a burger in the same way we kill animals for a burger?

Stranger: no

You: What’s there difference between a human and animal that makes it permissible for the animal but not the human-animal?

Stranger: Humans are able to reciprocate

You: What about mentally handicapped humans?

You: Do you think it’s permissible to kill mentally handicapped humans for a burger?

Stranger: Most mentally handicapped people are able to reciprocate in the manner I described

Stranger: If they aren't, then, probably we'd just view them with too much sympathy to kill and eat.

You: ...so it is permissible to kill the other mentally handicapped humans for a burger?

Stranger: Well, how appetizing does a mentally handicapped man sound to you?

You: I'd imagine it'd be no different than a beef burger.

Stranger: Seems like one is inherently kind of off-putting, since it's made of human

You: So you believe it's permissible to kill the other mentally handicapped humans for a burger?

You: I'm sure you wouldn't know the difference.

Stranger: I think people who are violent and unable to reciprocate, and handicapped to an extent where they are a danger to themselves and others are already denied the rights to a free life other people have. We don't turn them into burgers because of aesthetic issues.

You: Are cows and such violent?

You: Do you see the contradiction here?

Stranger: Cows cannot demonstrate moral reciprocity, and in certain situations would act violently towards you

You: So you believe it's permissible to kill the other mentally handicapped humans for a burger?

Stranger: Under the circumstances I described

You: Do you see the contradiction?

You: Cows are not violent?

You: or are they?

Stranger: For instance, say you kill a handicapped man in self-defense, then you could turn his body into a burger if were looking for a snack.

You: Do we kill cows in self-defense?

Stranger: Frequently, not

You: Do you see how your addition is irrelevant?

You: So you believe it's permissible to kill the other mentally handicapped humans for a burger?

You: Just bite the bullet

Stranger: It's demonstrating how he isn't living up to the social contract

Stranger: or demonstrating reciprocity

Stranger: by actively infringing on my rights

You: Ok, so you would effectively eat mentally handicapped humans for a burger.

You: Gotcha.

Stranger: No, certainly not, that's gross

You: Yet you think it's permissible.

Stranger: I think there are certain situations where it certainly would be

You: Do you honestly think human flesh tastes THAT much different from cow muscle?

Stranger: It's not about the taste

You: What's not about the taste?

Stranger: Morality

You: That's what it seems to come down to.

You: Why don't you think the choice comes down to taste?

You: Soy/almond vs diary milk

Stranger: Because it has to do with reciprocity and one's ability to act morally

You: You've already bitten the bullet on that

You: According to you, it's permissible to kill mentally handicapped humans.

Stranger: There are certain situations where it's permissible to kill fully functioning humans

You: Sure there are

Stranger: for instance, in self-defense

You: Again, we've already covered this

You: A cow isn't attacking you.

You: Keep injecting these red herrings

Stranger: We're talking about people, and in this situation a person is attacking me

You: The matter is about killing a cow

You: Not about killing a satanic cow out to get you

Stranger: What is common in these two situations? The other person or animal is not able to, or is not, showing reciprocity.

You: Some mentally handicapped folks cannot reciprocate

You: According to you, it's permissible to kill THOSE mentally handicapped humans.

You: and fry them up

You: dish em out

You: eat em up

Stranger: Sure, if they aren't reciprocating

You: Ya. Could be you someday. Alzheimer's.

Stranger: If you are a vegetable, might as well get fried up

You: According to you.

You: That's not my moral framework.

Stranger: I'd say that people with Alzheimer's are still capable of moral reasoning and reciprocity

Stranger: Unless they are just braindead

Stranger: and then yeah, we typically kill those people in the least painful way possible or let them die

High carb diet beginning

You both like health.

You: 25 M. Idc who you are.

Stranger: same

You: what's your interest in health?

Stranger: healthy living

Stranger: for as long as possible

You: I see

Stranger: thats my interest

You: diet?

Stranger: Its a part yea.

Stranger: I take active interest in studying the effects of diet on health

You: What do you think of a high carb diet?

Stranger: It depends. In general, I believe, given the evidence, high carb diet is detrimental to overall health

You: What evidence?

Stranger: But if the proportion of complex carbs is higher, it gets a little muddy

Stranger: Evidence from murine models, fly models,

Stranger: primate models

Stranger: Human epidemiological studies..

You: you're just listing titles

You: I mean, what actual studies

Stranger: Oh you want papers??

You: or authoritative quotes

You: reputable

Stranger: look up david sinclair's latest book

You: Lifespan: Why We Age—and Why We Don't Have To

Stranger: yes

Stranger: he has categorically stated, that high carb diet is detrimental in the long run

You: "life expectancy of around 83, compared to 82 for high-carb"

You: :/

Stranger: thats the quote from lancet

Stranger: study from human epidimeology study

You: do you have Discord?

Stranger: no

You: there is a debate server for debating this

Stranger: I mean I dont really debate on this issue.

You: cuz you just read one book?

Stranger: I stated it categorically, depending on the source of carbs muddies the water

Stranger: complex carbs have a different story

Stranger: Lets put it this way: When you know exactly what the organism is eating and how much it is eating, results of carbs being detrimental to health begin to appear

Stranger: Most early diabetic rodent and fly models for diabetes were generated by feeding them high carb diet.

You: fly as in the bug?

Stranger: fruit fly

Stranger: drosophila melanogaster

You: how is that related to the human anatomy?

Stranger: the metabolic pathways remain conserved

Stranger: nonetheless, primate and murine models all point to the same story

You: do you have studies for this?

Stranger: primate?

Stranger: or murine?

You: or at least key words

You: that a high carb diet is detrimental to health

Stranger: letme give you the exact PMID..fair?

You: prefer online PDF

You: not mere abstracts

Stranger: so open source journals??

Stranger: or papers?

You: any kind of reasonable evidence

Stranger: you'll have to wait...

Stranger: https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/37/9/1163.short talks about generating diabetes models way back in 1988

You: I'd rather have primates even tho mice have similar systems

You: wait, this isn't even open access anyway

You: NOT a mere abstract

You: fucking hate getting a study that I can't see

Stranger: i'll get you the full study

Stranger: http://www.jbc.org/content/294/25/9706.full.pdf

Stranger: Primate study. Look out for effects of High Carb diet...

Stranger: it has other parts too

You: thx

You: Why isn't there a discussion??

You: holy shit

You: half the study is a discussion

Stranger: there is discussion

Stranger: pg 9712

You: no where is there "high carb"

Stranger: you'll have to see the controls..

You: high-sugar diet

Stranger: Yes. Which is why I clarified....complex carbs muddies the water.

You: well if you can't find a study on a high carb diet...

Stranger: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oby.22436 here's another one looking at western vs medditerreanean

You: ...just reading into what you want to believe at that point.

Stranger: The reason high carb is not used, is because it is a complex term.

Stranger: and it has to be reduced into essential components

You: na

You: simply, vegan diet

You: lol

Stranger: whats your take on high carb diet?

You: I don't think it needs to be reduced to a mechanistic study

You: Donno

You: I guess I'd start with the RDA

You: how they got that figure

You: read the general public page

You: then read the physician's page

Stranger: yea, but they have a habit of drastically changing guides.

You: I trust that they know something that I don't

Stranger: I remember, sugar as a culprit was known since early 1960's

Stranger: yet RDA only accepted it in late 2000's

Stranger: or early 2000's...i cant remember

Stranger: same story with dietary cholestrol

You: I trust their recommendations over studies where only the abstract is available

Stranger: well I can access all the studies tbh.

Stranger: plus there is always sci-gen

You: then don't post them

Stranger: sci-hub

Stranger: you can download all scientific papers for free

Stranger: just basing your opinion on open-source scientific information is a disservice

You: I don't get what you mean "all scientific papers"

Stranger: have you ever used sci-hub?

Stranger: its a torrent like service that can let you download papers that usually require some form of payment..

You: I'm sceptical

You: looking into it...

You: damn

You: that's cool

You: https://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oby.22436

Stranger: happy?

You: very

You: =)

Stranger: now go read papers uninhibited.

You: ...time to rape Google Scholar

Stranger: haha...google scholar is still helpful as a search tool

Stranger: not as an access tool :p

You: exactly

You: Google Scholar -> sci-hub